Comments on: Is climate change real? http://davidcarrier.org/blog/2008/10/14/is-climate-change-real/ Discussion and feedback about economic issues, policies, and priorities Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:23:46 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: LThomas http://davidcarrier.org/blog/2008/10/14/is-climate-change-real/comment-page-1/#comment-16 LThomas Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:42:21 +0000 http://davidcarrier.org/blog/2008/06/28/is-climate-change-real/#comment-16 Really like the idea of high speed bike lanes on the highways. Perhaps it is correct when Pat Campbell states climate change comes through fewer sunspots. Noone has studied the sun long enough to know all the ways it impacts Earth. However, even if we have a major glaciation every 10,000 years, and in between smaller cycles of cold and warm, could species adapt or new species develop that rapidly? Where will these species migrate to during a next glaciation? Or all 6 billion humans, for that matter? This particular view of global change as being a natural phenomena not impacted by humans, sounds just as unpleasent as warming. But just as lead molecules in gasoline, which are still swirling around up in the stratosphere even after all these years, caused holes in ozone, so too could other human activities have impact on our enviornment. What other ways have we disturbed a balance we were unaware of? The whole debate about whether the planet is warming or not , and if it is, the debate about human contribution to it, seems shortsighted from a survivalist point of view... If my car is speeding toward a unseen drop-off, would I just roar along until I had proof the drop-off existed, perhaps too late, or would I take evasive action based on warning signs on the side of the road? "Often societal ‘”truth” is mixed with assumption, half truth, some truth, and falsity." The last sentance of your post is one of those statements that can be taken apart and reassembled over and over and each time making a different picture. Hence, the fun of debate and long conversations. Maybe societal "truth" is individualized exclusively, and thereby exempts proof based on research, testing, and calculation. Really like the idea of high speed bike lanes on the highways.

Perhaps it is correct when Pat Campbell states climate change comes through fewer sunspots. Noone has studied the sun long enough to know all the ways it impacts Earth. However, even if we have a major glaciation every 10,000 years, and in between smaller cycles of cold and warm, could species adapt or new species develop that rapidly? Where will these species migrate to during a next glaciation? Or all 6 billion humans, for that matter? This particular view of global change as being a natural phenomena not impacted by humans, sounds just as unpleasent as warming. But just as lead molecules in gasoline, which are still swirling around up in the stratosphere even after all these years, caused holes in ozone, so too could other human activities have impact on our enviornment. What other ways have we disturbed a balance we were unaware of?

The whole debate about whether the planet is warming or not , and if it is, the debate about human contribution to it, seems shortsighted from a survivalist point of view… If my car is speeding toward a unseen drop-off, would I just roar along until I had proof the drop-off existed, perhaps too late, or would I take evasive action based on warning signs on the side of the road?

“Often societal ‘”truth” is mixed with assumption, half truth, some truth, and falsity.”

The last sentance of your post is one of those statements that can be taken apart and reassembled over and over and each time making a different picture. Hence, the fun of debate and long conversations. Maybe societal “truth” is individualized exclusively, and thereby exempts proof based on research, testing, and calculation.

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By: Pat Campbell http://davidcarrier.org/blog/2008/10/14/is-climate-change-real/comment-page-1/#comment-9 Pat Campbell Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:25:33 +0000 http://davidcarrier.org/blog/2008/06/28/is-climate-change-real/#comment-9 The climate has always been in flux. Witness the Puget Sound area where glaciers carved out the landscape then very quickly receeded leaving deep fiord like water courses or the evidence of ancient people being found in areas that were once clear of snow then covered for several thousand years until those areas recently became snow free again. We can take a lot of measures to save energy and make our resources last, but frankly we are unable to control the output of the sun as it varies in its cycles. ( We recently entered a low sunspot activity cycle and if past history is an indication should be experiencing a generally cooling period. Like the waning summer, this will take awhile to become apparent.) Think! Often societal '"truth" is mixed with assumption, half truth, some truth, and falsity. The climate has always been in flux. Witness the Puget Sound area where glaciers carved out the landscape then very quickly receeded leaving deep fiord like water courses or the evidence of ancient people being found in areas that were once clear of snow then covered for several thousand years until those areas recently became snow free again. We can take a lot of measures to save energy and make our resources last, but frankly we are unable to control the output of the sun as it varies in its cycles. ( We recently entered a low sunspot activity cycle and if past history is an indication should be experiencing a generally cooling period. Like the waning summer, this will take awhile to become apparent.) Think! Often societal ‘”truth” is mixed with assumption, half truth, some truth, and falsity.

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By: Craig_in_Vancouver http://davidcarrier.org/blog/2008/10/14/is-climate-change-real/comment-page-1/#comment-6 Craig_in_Vancouver Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:35:45 +0000 http://davidcarrier.org/blog/2008/06/28/is-climate-change-real/#comment-6 Washington residents pay the State of Oregon approximately $100 million per year in taxes. To date, our legislature has done nothing to recoup this money. David, what will you do about this inequity? In my opinion, Washington workers have already paid for the new bridge. It's time for Oregon to pay up. On the bridge itself, it is pure lunacy to replace the current bridge. It should be declared a historic landmark so it can't be taken down. We need three bridges over the Columbia. Portland has more than that over the Willamette. Washington residents pay the State of Oregon approximately $100 million per year in taxes. To date, our legislature has done nothing to recoup this money. David, what will you do about this inequity? In my opinion, Washington workers have already paid for the new bridge. It’s time for Oregon to pay up.

On the bridge itself, it is pure lunacy to replace the current bridge. It should be declared a historic landmark so it can’t be taken down. We need three bridges over the Columbia. Portland has more than that over the Willamette.

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